Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996
Subject: COMMENT:Shannon Faulkner
From: Angela M. Kearney

I have been reading all of the hoop-la of Shannon Faulkner and now I must say a word or two. Yes, I am for equal rights etc etc and I realize that state money was being spent one single gender education BUT Shannon Faulkner is not a hero to me !! She (1) did not tell the truth on her admission application to being female. It was assumed she was a male and she knew that.

(2) Once the ball was rolling to get her in there what was she doing? She has said this crap about her being in shape for the physical endurance but that was bull. Anyone could look at her and tell that was not the case.

(3) She came out whinning about how badly she was treated. Well, what did she expect - a sharing of beauty secrets with the guys ! She knew what she was going to get or at least should have known.

(4) Now she is going on the lecture circuit - what for? She claims that there are other incidents that she has not told - not even her family. Bull! She is saying that only to keep the public "on the edge of our seat" so we can read about it in the book she will probably write when her name is finally out of the spotlight and her pocketbook gets a little empty.

Member of the Shannon Faulkner fan club - NOT! Angela M. Kearney

Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996
From: W. L. Salvatore

if there were someone on this list who didn't know much about the Shannon Faulkner episode, i would cavil at this as misleading. just for the record, let me say that she _did_ tell the truth, as i understand it -- she did not explicitly state that she was male.

perhaps that was not a fulsomely generous and forthcoming version of the _whole_ truth, but any assumption about her gender was made by the officials at the Citadel, to whom that should have been either irrelevant, or specifically requested on the application. based on the information that the application asked for, which should have been _all_ the information that the Citadel thought relevant to a decision about whether she should be admitted, she qualified for admission.

if you were applying to a join a country club which covertly discriminated on the basis of skin color, and the application did not in any way ask you to specify your skin color (for fear of being patently in violation of Federal anti-discrimination law), would you consider that it was inappropriate not to state specifically what your skin color was? the Shannon Faulkner episode strikes me as entirely analogous, from what i know about the facts of the situation. perhaps i am wrong -- perhaps there were boxes labeled "Male" and "Female", and she checked neither. that's slightly more questionable ethically, but not legally -- again, if this info was really important to the Citadel, they should have checked.

i think that it's clear that the Citadel's actions can reasonably be interpreted as indicating that the Citadel considered gender unimportant, and in my opinion that's just what their attitude should have been, if their primary purpose was to train leaders, especially military leaders, for service in today's world.

W. L. Salvatore

Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996
From: Dorothy H. Mackey

I must apologize to the feminist men on Minerva. As I read this, I briefly thought, hum now here is a guy who doesn't understand, sorry!

Well, as for the interesting perspective let me say, 1st contrary to the debate on equal rights, why should any two legged upright human being apply or wage a debate as why we should all be treated as deserving of equal pay for equal work, the right to die in combat if qualified, etc, etc. I think the debate is back@## wards. All people deserve the same dignities and I don't attribute this to "tradition" which has been over used to justify to many of this countries injustices. It stems from power, control issues, personal insecurity, and ignorance. If we could overcome these issues this country could be financially wealthy, and socio-economically a power house.

As for Ms. Faulkner the issue of her misleading the VMI is not the point I find is most aggregious. It is true she was not in shape, but if I recall weren't there other boys who went to the infirmory with her? In my officer camp days mid 80's, and 90's there were plenty of cadets and officers out of shape, it was the rare exception who could manage the run, sit ups, etc. I feel that was part of the reason for the physical fitness portion of the training. I do feel one major point was overlooked. No one dealt with the death threats against her, is that whinning? To be threatened for wanting the same oppertunities? I thought this was America, land of the free...and "Brave". Susan B. Anthony would be rolling over in her grave about now, or Madame Curey. It took alot of guts, no matter how you feel about it. I don't think Ms. Faulkner wants a fan club, but she didn't deserve the stuff she got because she wanted something different for herself? I would have had no problem if Ms Faulkner failed when given the same oppertunities to fail as her peers, but the deck was stacked, there was no consciuos effort to be honorable, or to even apply the rational man concept.It is similiar to dry cleaners, or mechanicswho charge women more just because they don't know better.Another point,of all the readings I've done on POWs, or hostages, this sounds identical to those accounts. Ms Faulkner has guts, more then the cowards who hid behind a uniform and rank.

It's scary to think that there are human beings who condone organized hostile overt behavior like this. If this was being done out on the street in the author's town, American's would call this a band of dangerous thugs some what similiar to the bat weilding kids in NY City who attacked the young stockbroker. No matter what institute one decides to join INCLUDING the military or semi-military such as VMI, the US Constitution provides us all with the same protections of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Not your happiness, not mine but each of our own, with the provision that as long as we don't interfere with anothers rights we are free to persue our own rights. I feel we are given these as basic rights as inately as we are given the right to breath. I feel that to go through all the "crap" she went through took unsurmountable guts. But history does repaet itself if we don't learn from it.

Let's take a trip down military academy lane shall we; Navy cadet Dryier taken from her bed and hand cuffed to a male toilet as male cadets exposed themselves. Elizebeth Saum AF Cadet shaken and beaten unconscious 3 times during survival training, blindfolded, tied up, urined on, forced to endure ridicule and a simulated rape by fellow US male cadets. She may never be able to have kids because of these beatings. Cheating scandals, sexual harassment by an academy football team to female cadets. What price is enough, for people like Ms Faulkner to pay to have a non prejudice chance at any oppertunity. Beatings, rapes, their life? It is not just prejudice that is involved here, it is the dangerous thinking process' of boys, men, girls or women who condones, ignores, or dismiss' these criminal activities as exceptable. These perpitrators maybe the individuals who will potentailly lead our country, be our ministers, or a sherrif in our communities. Wheather it is a military person, businessperson or government leader, Americans put a heavy burden of moral faith and integrity via our public trust in their hands. I personally don't want to have any more of these cowardly thugs in positions of power, overseeing my rights and protections, or that of my niece and nephews. I wonder if the parents of young Navy seals drowned during training in an overly aggressive environment feel as sure about their son's training as you do about Ms Faulkner's. PS. She has every right to expose the truth about what happened to her, no matter how she does it. It is our society who teaches kids today to keep telling anyone about inappropriate behavior until they find someone who will listen. Is this a lie? Why is it as kids we are suppose to keep talking but as adults we're suppose to shut up, or she's whinning. I don't believe a crime against a child is any less a crime if its against an adult, if they survive it. What is it? Do we not want to know the truth, is it to ugly or are we to afraid to really know how vulnerable we really all are? If people speak up even over the objections of those who say they're whinning, maybe domestic abuse, rapes, and child abuse will come down. Maybe, society will become healthier rather then colder, what could it hurt given the direction we are heading in now.

Ok I'm done, thanks for the air time.
Dorothy H. Mackey

Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996
From: Gene Moser

Fellow Minerva followers
In response to W. L. Salvatore's comments about Shannon Faulkner:

Why doesn't somebody write the Citadel and ask them for an application form from the year Shannon Faulkner applied and see if it asks for "Sex"? Anybody remember the story of the Greek philosphers arguing about how many teeth a horse has?

Like VMI, the majority of Citadel graduates do NOT make the active army a career. Many do NOT make the reserves a career. Many are NOT commissioned.

Gene Moser

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